Русская версияRomani Rose is the head of the German Central Council for Sinti and
Roma.
He has fought for official recognition of the Sinti and Roma
suffering under the Nazi government. Thirteen of his family members
were murdered in death camps.
DW-WORLD.DE: Czech neo-Nazis want to resettle 200,000 Roma in India
and in Italy authorities are fingerprinting all Sinti and Roma on
the basis of their ethnicity. Arson occurs at Sinti and Roma camps.
The German Central Council for Sinti and Roma has said racism is
growing. Are Sinti and Roma the new scapegoats of the European
Union?
Bildunterschrift:
Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift:
Life for some Roma is more like Bangladesh than Europe, Rose said
Romani Rose: At the moment we are experiencing a frightening
development. The most recent events in Italy make that clear. The
measures taken by Berlusconi's administration in declaring a state
of emergency and other steps are a clear breach of the EU Treaty.
Sinti and Roma are EU citizens. The causes of the problems lie with
municipal Italian government that allows slums to arise. When a few
thousand people without any chance of improving their lot in life
live on the edge of the city in indescribable conditions, it
naturally worries the population. But latching on to the problem
and using it in an election campaign as the Lega Nord did by using
minorities to make the majority of people feel afraid -- that's
something I hadn't thought could still be possible in Europe.
The Italian parliamentary president has made general, racist
comments aimed at Sinti and Roma. That would be unimaginable in
Germany. Discrimination and racism exist here too, but abusing the
difficulties facing a minority to turn people's attention from
other issues is something I think has been made impossible by 60
years of dealing with our history.
Why are so many Sinti and Roma leaving their homes in Romania and
Bulgaria?
Massive discrimination in all areas of life -- from education to
work to living -- is the main reason. We are in dire need of
education and infrastructure projects there. The problem is that
these people do not have any status. They don't exist and don't
have any chances for the future. They are living in degrading
conditions. No water, no electricity -- it looks more like
Bangladesh than Europe. The living situation is a major problem.
The people don't have a chance to get a job. Much of what's
happening reminds you of apartheid South Africa. In Hungary, the
Czech Republic and Bulgaria the Sinti and Roma are kept out of the
education system. The children are not allowed to go to regular
schools and have to attend schools for the mentally handicapped --
or there are schools with poorly educated teachers and less
teaching material. That's the real problem.
The EU has spent a lot of money and called for a decade of
integration in the new member countries -- reports say as much as
11 billion euros ($16.5 billion).
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Many Italians took to the streets to protest the fingerprinting of
Sinti and Roma
Instead of holding conferences, the EU should put in place measures
that would really improve the situation. Measures that would
address the causes of the problems that make many people take
flight. During the EU's expansion, we did not pay attention to the
fact that each nation has the responsibility to fight against
racism and discrimination. This is still on the agenda in Romania
and Bulgaria. In this case, I really have to reprove the EU
commissioners, including people like Mr. Verheugen. The new EU
countries are obliged to do enough when it comes to laws protecting
minorities. When citizens are put into different categories because
they belong to a different ethnic group, you simply have to call
that racism. The current programs to fight it have not been
effective and have hardly reached the people affected. A minority
cannot be given advantages the majority doesn't have, but we have
some catching up to do in the interest of equality.
Many Germans are worried about the migration of mainly poor people
from Romania and Bulgaria since the EU expansion. People think
Sinti and Roma are going to end up washing windows at traffic
lights, playing music for change on the street and joining bands of
thieves.
I'm, of course, familiar with the complaints about harassment. This
mainly has to do with refugees from Romania and Bulgaria who are
used to much worse than the discrimination they face here. No one
enjoys leaving their home. We have to solve the problems there.
How would you describe relations between Sinti and Roma in Germany
and the Sinti and Roma in eastern Europe?
Bildunterschrift:
Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift:
In Germany many Sinti and Roma have to deny their ethnicity, Rose
said
In Germany we've been integrated for 600 to 700 years. But
integrated often means people lie about their ethnic affiliation
because they think that they will be able to evade the deep set
stigmatization. The pictures of antiziganism are still very alive.
That forces our people to live in anonymity though they are
involved in all aspects of life -- everything from politics to
sports. Our goal is that they can talk about the minority they're a
part of. National and cultural identity should not be put into
opposition with each other. That has to be realized as a part of
democracy. Public criminalization simply scares German Sinti and
Roma. We have had and EU-wide experience of antiziganism. It wasn't
invented by the Nazis, but it led to their program of annihilation.
That's why it is hugely important to us that, in our legal system,
people have to answer for their own acts. Generalities based on
ethnicity cannot be permitted. Germany in particular has a
responsibility to make sure that doesn't happen. There is a clear
instance of this in history when the Reich's interior minister
Frick ordered non-Aryans' race be emphasized in court sentencing.
This is what makes a constitutional state different from a
dictator. An overwhelming portion of the media has realized this
and acts accordingly.
Is it possible to call Europe's Sinti and Roma a united group?
What holds us together is a shared experience of persecution and
assassination during the Holocaust. Sinti and Roma were
methodically found, carried away and murdered in all 11 of the
countries occupied by the Nazis. And it was solely because of their
ethnicity -- just like with the Jews.
But antiziganism seems more wide-spread than anti-Semitism.
Yes, it is. As far as antiziganism is concerned a more open form of
rejection is accepted. When it comes to anti-Semitism the
consequences quickly become more serious. I hope that a similar
sensibility takes effect. It would help our coexistence with larger
society when policies made it clear that a historical sense of
responsibility is indivisible. The National Socialists' goal of
destruction applied equally to both minorities. In 2009, a memorial
to the murdered Sinti and Roma is going to be dedicated across from
the Reichstag, hopefully awareness will also grow. This isn't about
placing blame but about responsibility for the present.
At the beginning of August, parallel to the issuing of German state
report, you presented another report to the UN Convention on the
Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination. The police, in
particular, are accused of discrimination.
We expressed that we wanted the German government to distance
itself discriminatory comments made by the deputy director of the
association of German detectives. In an association publication he
said the Sinti and Roma felt they could "live off the fat of the
affluent society" and took "persecution during the Third Reich as
legitimizing for theft and social parasitism." The premiers of
Bavaria and Brandenburg, Beckstein and Platzeck, have distanced
themselves from the statement, but we think it's sad that
prosecutors saw it as covered by freedom of expression. From our
point of view it was defamatory and inciting. It's jargon out of
the Nazi-era -- Goebbels also compared us with animals. Just
imagine that a similar statement would be made about the Jewish
minority. The association of German detectives has not distanced
itself from the comments. We find that frightening so we took our
concerns to the German parliament as well as Interior Minister
Wolfgang Schaeuble to put a set of suitable guidelines on what is
appropriate for German police.
(Deutsche Welle)
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